ONE SUGGESTION FOR NATS [Please attend]

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ONE SUGGESTION FOR NATS [Please attend]

Postby 52Takeshi_Mat » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:28 pm

I sincerely suggest that we don't add compulsories to final scores, or change the way we add them. Here are some reasons:

1. In most yoyo contests throughout the world there's no compulsories anymore, e.g. WYYC, EYYC, NYYC, CNYC, ZYC, Japan Regional & National Yoyo Contest, etc. Actually I don't really know if there is any national yoyo contest that still left compusory tricks. It could be good to follow the trend.

2. The technique in compulsories are old now. There are many new yoyo techniques such as rejections, hooks, laceration image tricks (e.g. laceration tower), horizontal tricks, body tricks, etc. They deserve to be scored more than those old-technique compulsory tricks. Compulsory tricks could actually be scored twice in final scores if we do compulsories in 3min FS, which is not fair to new trick players and original trick players.

3. Adding compulsories to final could make the results kind of unfair. For instance if I scored 40 in compulsories when another guy (who doesn't really practice for compulsories) scored 6, and his 3min FS is 30 points more than me, then I'll win him when I have a clearly worse FS than the other guy.

4.It's hard to be sure if we do a compulsory trick absolutely correct (IMO). Like if I slightly move my middle finger to make hops more accurate when doing blackhops, if someone gets caught when others don't it becomes unfair.

I do also suggest that we use 1min FS for prelims, it could be hard to judge but could also be kinda quicker :P and we have more space for our own FS. Or we add our compulsories to finals, but only in order to cover negative marks (for mistakes we made in 3min FS), e.g. when I got 20 in compulsories and 90-30=60 in finals my final scores become 60+20=80, but if I get 110-15=95 in 3min FS my final scores just become 110(20>=15), so it could be both compensating and fair.

I hope the holders of the Australian national contest and everyone could accept those advice. Thanks for reading. Please comment!
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Re: ONE SUGGESTION FOR NATS [Please attend]

Postby -= sk!p =- » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:53 am

1. There would be no point doing 1minute freestyle with the amount of players that compete at our national championships.

2. While the tricks might be old, that not only allows people to practice them for many years, but it opens the entry to many more people. Doing a compulsory trick in freestyle, is not counted as repeating.

3. If a person scores higher than you in compulsories, then they deserved to because they practiced. It's not unfair to anyone. To say that, you could say that it is unfair to someone who normally goes great in compulsories but not in FS. I have placed worse because I don't hit many compulsaries, but with 2011 being my 6th Natonal contest, I still haven't practiced them. We all know how the game is played, if we want to win, we know how.

4.Judges know the compulsories well. The is no problem with you adjusting string on your fingers in blackhops, as long as no other digits move them (you cant spread it out with your thumb, but you can shake them into the right spot etc.)

Often the 1a compulsories are often judged by one of two people, so I don't think you will find that much difference.


We generally have about 10 1a freestyles and 8 Y division freestyles. People that don't hit any compulsories are invited to do a guest freestyle onstage.

We don't really turn anyone away, but we don't have 100 competitors... While I like your idea's they would be better implemented on a larger scale. We have thought many times about possibly changing the way it all works, but for now, this is the most clear cut easiest way to encourage people to have a go!
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Re: ONE SUGGESTION FOR NATS [Please attend]

Postby 52Takeshi_Mat » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:54 am

Oops. Forgot to consider the number of players. lol
Thanks for your comment! It really helps me understand compulsories better.

Probably I didn't make my words clear (not good at English >.<). In 2 I mean, say if I can do kamikaze, you can't but you actually invented a new-technique-based combo which scores the same with kamikaze, then in final score my kamikaze could be scored twice (once in compulsory and another time in final), when your combo could only be scored once (just in finals, for it's not compulsory trick and if you repeat it in FS you don't get scored or get less, don't you?). People deserve to be scored with hard practicing on compulsories, but also deserve and should be encouraged to play new tricks and create tricks, more than playing tricks that existed for a long time.

If due to the number of our contestants what about the last suggestion? It does both encourage people who did practice hard for compulsories, and encourage them to challenge themselves. Besides, it's clear that most people get more negative mark(misses) than what they scored in compulsories, so it doesn't really make a big change to the rules.

BTW I actually feel good when do compulsories, so this is just a suggestion for the comp :)

and check this guy out
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1633
Dunno how he will be scored if he's in Nats. Or if he could even get the chance to enter finals for he got 0 in compulsories mostly. LOL
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Re: ONE SUGGESTION FOR NATS [Please attend]

Postby Testercles » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:42 pm

Just to add my $0.02 to number 4:
We usually all stay together in dorm style accommodation during the weekend of the nats and during this period we do have a session of Q&A and demonstrations about correct technique for the sports ladder and compulsories so that's a non-issue.
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Re: ONE SUGGESTION FOR NATS [Please attend]

Postby 52Takeshi_Mat » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:55 pm

Got it. Tks for telling me how compulsories work. I may post my vids for compulsories on so you could check if it is correct or not :)
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Re: ONE SUGGESTION FOR NATS [Please attend]

Postby -= sk!p =- » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:26 pm

Generally, a judge will score an original trick with extra clicks.

This is why tricks cant be just "scored."

Ask any two judges to click Kwyjibo, and get back to me :)
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Re: ONE SUGGESTION FOR NATS [Please attend]

Postby Testercles » Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:44 am

Kwijibo... 8 or 3 or inbetween, that is the question?

As long as the judges are consistent all ends up well. There are videos on the camps site for each of the compulsories (though I feel having a fat white guy do Black Hops and not you know... Black doing Black Hops is a little incongruous).
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Re: ONE SUGGESTION FOR NATS [Please attend]

Postby 52Takeshi_Mat » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:25 am

-= sk!p =- wrote:Ask any two judges to click Kwyjibo, and get back to me :)

Who usually judges on nats? Are they Aussies or from another country..?
I asked 3 judges about kujibo(I mean this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDWQvZufubE) and all I got was 3 marks for 3 hops. If it fits well with rhythm maybe 4, but not 5 unless you do it as rhythmic as Mickey lol Sometimes they will give more clicks if they feel the trick is playing extremely naturally, like playing when not looking at the yoyo but the crowd, etc.How is it judged in nats?(BTW how can you get an 8 for kwyjibo?)
Really interested in the judging system in Nationals. Is it TE & PS in a ratio of 3:1 or ...?
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Re: ONE SUGGESTION FOR NATS [Please attend]

Postby Mark K » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:17 am

I didn't read most of that.... but I'll just say that compulsaries are good.
Learn the foundations of the tricks you are doing and be better player... don't be an arm wrap fanboy who can't land a magic drop...
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Re: ONE SUGGESTION FOR NATS [Please attend]

Postby -= sk!p =- » Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:40 am

Mark K wrote: don't be an arm wrap fanboy who can't land a magic drop...


S my D :P

Magic Drops are the devil.
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Re: ONE SUGGESTION FOR NATS [Please attend]

Postby Testercles » Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:42 pm

Kwijibo for 8 marks: trapeze, pop, land, roll, pop, land, pop, land.
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Re: ONE SUGGESTION FOR NATS [Please attend]

Postby 52Takeshi_Mat » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:36 pm

Testercles wrote:Kwijibo for 8 marks: trapeze, pop, land, roll, pop, land, pop, land.

If the judges click every time the yoyo roll, leave or touch the string, the clicker could be broken when they're judging some extremely fast tricks. lol
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Re: ONE SUGGESTION FOR NATS [Please attend]

Postby 52Takeshi_Mat » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:14 pm

-= sk!p =- wrote:1. There would be no point doing 1minute freestyle with the amount of players that compete at our national championships.

2. While the tricks might be old, that not only allows people to practice them for many years, but it opens the entry to many more people.

Still don't get it. :shock:
1. The smallest competitions I've seen still do 1min FS for prelims. E.g. in 2011EJ 5a there were just 10 competitors, and 'compulsories' could be picked up from http://www.worldyoyocontest.com/2005worlds/5atricks.php
Some small competition straightly went to final (1 or 3min fs)
Is it a bit too 'classical' when compulsory trick rules were terminated in competitions years ago, when we are still following them now?

2. I think doing 1min FS opens the entry to more people. It doesn't only allow people who practiced them but also some players who didn't or didn't even know compulsories (who just play yoyos for fun :D ). It's also fair to people practiced them for years, for they can also do their compulsories in FS. Those tricks become accurate after years of practice and accuracy helps a lot when doing freestyles.

You never see Takeshi Matsuura doing suicides but it doesn't stop him to be a good 1a player :)
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Re: ONE SUGGESTION FOR NATS [Please attend]

Postby -= sk!p =- » Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:19 pm

Doing 1min freestyles doesn't open the comp up-to more people.

With the comp spanning one day, we don't have a lot of time. 1min freestyles take only 2 minutes less time than 3 minute freestyles. Waiting for a player, their equipment, the dj and theirs, and judges and theirs, can take quite a lot of time.

Think of compulsories as a bar you have to reach. If you can't get at least one of those tricks hit, your freestyle isn't scored and does not count as finals. I have had this happen, through nobodies fault but my own. I knew there were compulsories, I knew what the tricks were, but I didn't practice them, and did them ill prepared.

Without compulsories, the easy win is with going fast... And I like seeing people individual styles, not just see how fast they can go so they get more clicks.


We also run sports ladder, which encourages EVERYBODY to participate!
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Re: ONE SUGGESTION FOR NATS [Please attend]

Postby Testercles » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:51 am

52Takeshi_Mat wrote:
Testercles wrote:Kwijibo for 8 marks: trapeze, pop, land, roll, pop, land, pop, land.

If the judges click every time the yoyo roll, leave or touch the string, the clicker could be broken when they're judging some extremely fast tricks. lol


True that but some judges like to judge that way, plus no one in Aus is super super fast really.
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